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Do primates believe in God? They seem to have morals!

Byoliveridley

I had a conversation with a colleague over lunch a few years back, really nice guy and good friend, very religious. Somehow, the topic of my religion came up and I happened to mention that I was not much of a believer in any kind of supreme being. He was silent for a little while, trying to digest the fact that someone he liked and respected (me!) had just outed himself as the spawn of satan. He then asked me where I got my values from if I did not believe in God. I explained to him that just like him, I got mine from my parents, from school, society, friends, etc., in fact, one source less than he got his from! (a slight variant on the “I believe in one god less than you do” schtick!) I also explained to him that I thought a lot about my value system, I made ethical and moral judgements all the time just by thinking, reading and listening to other people. He seemed unconvinced, thanked me for my honesty, and we proceeded to talk basketball after that (Go Heels!).

Long ramble notwithstanding, I had known a little bit about this primate research previously, but happened to read a well written NY Times article about primates and “morality” (don’t like that word, but can’t seem to find a better one).

Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior – New York Times

Some animals are surprisingly sensitive to the plight of others. Chimpanzees, who cannot swim, have drowned in zoo moats trying to save others. Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days

Biologists argue that these and other social behaviors are the precursors of human morality. They further believe that if morality grew out of behavioral rules shaped by evolution, it is for biologists, not philosophers or theologians, to say what these rules are.

Hmm, they must believe God, because without religion, there is no morality, right?

I am not convinced that this “morality” was a naturally selected behavior rather than a by-product of evolution (the article references a critic as making this point too), nevertheless, it is fascinating.

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War?

Byoliveridley

Way off topic, but war’s been on everyone’s mind of late, and the horribly devastating oil spill in Lebanon is but one example of the crazy devastation caused by war. An event that would be an international emergency by itself is only a footnote in the death of many innocent people, destruction of the happiness of entire communities and populations, not to mention all those blown up bridges, power plants and homes.

Los Angeles Times: Why Good Countries Fight Dirty Wars

The citizen-soldiers sent into the field by the United States or any other Western popular government are expected, by virtue of not so long ago having been free civilians themselves, to be more empathetic with the plight of the noncombatants with whom they come into contact. Certainly, brutal incidents like the My Lai massacre or the Abu Ghraib scandal occur from time to time, but they are widely viewed as cultural aberrations. This interpretation, however, is as simplistic as it is misleading. All too often the armies of modern democracies have tolerated and even initiated outrages against civilians, in manners uneasily close to those of their totalitarian and terrorist enemies. Israeli troops are currently demonstrating this fact in their response to the Hezbollah rocket offensive — a response most of the world community, according to recent polls, believes is taking an unacceptably disproportionate toll on Lebanese civilians. And there have been times when democratic leaders have been even more open about their brutal intentions: Speaking of the Allied bombing campaign during World War II that culminated in that consummate act of state terrorism, the firebombing of Dresden, Germany, Winston Churchill flatly stated that the objective was “to make the enemy burn and bleed in every way.”

Excellent article, there really is no moral war, no just war, no holy war, no noble war, no happy war, no easy war, and there really should be no war other than a reluctantly fought, and limited war. There are no noble warriors, no heros, only real people doing things to their fellow human beings that are for the most part, unspeakable horrors. Anyone who tries to argue with me that their war is somehow different because of a host of reasons is not going to convince me.

While history books can be cleansed to blind future generations to the actual costs of war on the people fighting it, and the damage that ensues, fighting affects everyone who fights significantly, and rarely for the better. Eventually, it dehumanizes you, how can you kill someone (except in close combat where there’s a clear survival motivation) except by dehumanizing them? You’d have to think that a whole neighborhood is somehow inhuman to drop a bomb on them that kills maybe one terrorist and 15 innocent humans.

The history we learn has a lot to do with our willingness to tolerate this much war. The science lessons we get in school are a culmination of centuries of accumulated knowledge, the mathematics we learn goes back 10-15 centuries, we are taught to be self-critical, to learn from our mistakes, to think, yet the history we learn is pure propaganda, none of these edicts seem to apply. Being a “pacifist” has gone from normal to “loony coward fringe element” in a few years. Oh well…

Mr Bata, R.I.P

Byoliveridley

Thomas Bata, the patriarch of one of the world’s largest family-owned business empires, died in a Toronto hospital Monday. He was 93.Bata, who fled to Canada ahead of the Nazi invasion of his native Czechoslovakia in 1939, ran the shoe-manufacturing company that bears his family name out of its Toronto headquarters for more than four decades overseeing its growth into a multinational organization that serves more than a million customers a day.

Bata shoe empire magnate dies in Toronto
Thomas Bata inherited his father's shoe company in 1932. This man’s shoe company store was the place of pilgrimage every year for new school shoes and/or sneakers. I did not know he lived here, and ran his business out of Toronto. Bata was one of earliest brands I can remember, they were the only shoe in town when I was growing up. Bata’s brand has been overtaken on the cool factor points by the Nikes and Adidases of the world. But the last time I was in Chennai, I did find time to go to a Bata and buy a pair of sandals. The shopping experience was out of my childhood, the dusty no airconditioned store, the salespeople hanging around doing nothing much, chaos of unorganized shoes. There were some differences, they actually had a sale section! Anyway, when I was standing in line waiting to pay for the sandals, the guy sho sold them to me asked me if I could fill out a survey, and if I could please, if I didn’t mind, write in the comments section that the store needed air conditioning?? I sure did, because I was there 20 minutes in March, he was going to be there 10 hours a day through the summer.

Anyway, that was my last experience at a Bata’s. His stores are still the place to go for millions of people in small town India and even in the big cities. The stores could use a little bit of sprucing up (and some air conditioning), but the brand is still very strong.

A Year in BC

Byoliveridley

Or at least, it was when I started this post, now it’s almost 13 months!

  •  It is still beautiful, breathtakingly so
  •  We feel more settled for some reason, even though it is a new place
  •  Definitely more relaxed than I’ve ever been, which is saying a lot
  •  The cat is getting fatter, wait, that’s always been true
  •  Making friends is not easy in a non-university setting, but I’ve managed
  •  Fresh start, new habits, new zeal/drive, new person, not so much!
  •  The cable/cellphone/internet services make me long for the states. Rude monopolists abound and there is no competition/innovation.
  •  The “establishment” is very strong here, and the news media is very deferential
  •  Our famous social safety net is fraying, but it does not have the American charity/philanthropic base to replace the funding cuts
  •  We think we are an environmental leader, we are not and it is getting worse
  •  I worry that we are making no efforts to transition to the 21st century
  •  I still follow Carolina basketball, Go Heels!
  •  Facebook has made it very easy to keep in touch, given I am a terrible phone caller
  •  I still do not get hockey, did I mention I do not like fights?
  •  Let’s just say I’ve gone DIY on alcohol
  •  The BC Liberals are anything, but!
  •  Victoria feels like a slightly more urban Chapel Hill-Carrboro, but needs a Weaver Street Market.
  • Blogging has gotten non-existent, for a number of reasons.

Rain in Chennai

Byoliveridley

rainHard to believe, but it is raining in Chennai in the middle of  March.  Most people  I speak to  say that the last 3 years have seen extremely weird weather with rain patterns being completely unpredictable, rain in “spring”, cool weather this late in March, I guess the Chennaiwasis will take it, though the roads get completely messed up even with a few mm of rain. The streets are a lot cleaner, though the suburbs are still a nightmarish mess at times.

Blogging has been non existent because I’ve been doing other things and I’ve been living without an internet connection, except for a half hour here and there everyday. So, no time or inclination, which is a pity, because Chennai is in such a state of flux that things happen everyday, there are pollution issues, transportation issues, zoning (or lack thereof!) issues, corruption, a dizzying pace of new construction, etc. Infrastructure can’t possibly keep up, but the authorities have done a good, if not great job in trying. Chennai has done a much better job than Bangalore, where traffic just does not move. Every month, there are new traffic patterns to try out, new one way streets, new flyovers and intersections, seriously, for someone who used these streets every day for many years, I find myself getting lost because I just can’t drive by landmark any more.

Oh well, there’s still some greenery and beauty to be had, I went birding in Nanmangalam, in the Southern “suburbs” (no white picket fences in these suburbs!) and had the most wonderful time catching up with some old bird friends, the bulbuls, mynahs, bee eaters, cuckoos of various kinds, pheasants, raptors. kingfishers, babblers, warblers, snipes, many more, and my very favorite, the Great Horned Owl!! (the link is to an article detailing captive breeding of the owl in the forest I was in yesterday).

Owl

If you peek really hard, you will see the owl in the center of your picture, courtesy my 3X point and shoot (look up from the patch of white bird droppings, that is how we found the bird!). It’s a great site for birding, low scrub forest, and the birds pretty much show themselves, not very hard!

So long, back in the US next week, thank heavens for always on wireless!

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Responsible Death Rites

Byoliveridley

Can cremation be used as an offset under the Kyoto Protocol? Read on..

Seed: New Green Pyre Promoted in India

UN figures show close to 10 million people die a year in India, where 85 percent of the billion-plus population are Hindus who practice cremation. That leads to the felling of an estimated 50 million trees, leaves behind half a million tonnes of ash and produces eight million tonnes of carbon dioxide each year, according to research by Agarwals Mokshda environmental group.

The solution is to design a much more efficient wood burning stove hence satisfying religious sentiments (have to use wood to burn your body) and save lots of wood.

Agarwal built his first pyre, a raised human-sized brazier under a roof with slats that could be lowered to maintain heat. The elevation allowed air to circulate and feed the fire.

It gets even better…

Mokshda hopes its projects will eventually be registered under the Kyoto Protocol’s clean development mechanism, which encourages green projects in developing countries.

It allows industrialised countries that have committed to reducing emissions of greenhouse gases to count reductions achieved through investments in projects in developing countries towards their undertakings.

Really, we can get carbon credits by improving cremation practices?? That’s creative! Going all electric on the crematorium would obviously be the best thing, but Hindu religious sentiment being what it is, this is an improvement.

If you want environmentally friendly, this has nothing on the Parsis (or Zoroastrians):

The interior of the Tower of Silence is built in three concentric circles, one each for men, women, and children. The corpses are exposed there naked. The vultures do not take long—an hour or two at the most—to strip the flesh off the bones, and these, dried by the sun, are later swept into the central well

Yes, that’s right, the vultures! Now, that’s energy efficient! Unfortunately, due the use of diclofenac, an anti-inflammatory in livestock, vulture populations in India have declined to the point that this ancient ritual is now in serious jeopardy.

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Circumcision and AIDS – Revisited

Byoliveridley

condom.jpg

A post I wrote quite a while back on circumcision and AIDS remains my most commented post ever. In it (if you’re too lazy to click) I said that while research indicating a reduction in HIV infection in circumcised men was promising, there were a couple of concerns. One, that this could be a distraction from the single most effective prevention measure (no, not abstinence!), condom use. And two, that in certain cultures, especially among Hindus, this would be an absolute no no because circumcision is identified with being Muslim.

Anyway, in a review article, the Cochrane Centre in South Africa summarizes results from a meta analysis of a number of trials indicating a 50% reduction in HIV incidence among circumcised males. At this point in time, it is clear that circumcision is effective in reducing HIV incidence among heterosexual males. Based on this, the institute encourages the widespread use of circumcision as an AIDS prevention strategy.

So, am I still circumspect? Absolutely. I am still concerned that this research will be misinterpreted in a way that discourages condom use. In fact, the authors note that circumcised men indulged in more risky behaviour. Also, the incidence of HIV in the women these men were sleeping with increased from 9.6% to 13.8%, a 40% uptick. This increase was not statistically significant. No arguing with that, though the study was stopped early once it was clear that the men were helped, never mind the women, or reaching statistical significance in their case.

Given that it is very unclear what the effects of circumcision are on anything other than circumcised penises, which are only one half of the equation (or less!), I don’t think it is responsible to call for widespread use of circumcision as a public health strategy for the prevention of HIV until its effects on the other parties are known. While people are aware of this issue, I don’t think the science or the cultural landscape promote the use of circumcision as a HIV prevention strategy until its proven that women are not at risk from increased HIV incidence either biologically from a yet unknown mechanism, or socially from increased risk taking.

Men have more power in most societies to demand and receive sex on their terms. So the male centric nature of this research, and the conclusions drawn are disturbing. How irresponsible is it to encourage a public health strategy that appears to increase risk taking behaviour among men when the effects on the women are yet unknown, with only a statistically “insignificant” 40% increase in HIV incidence among women being observed?

I am. for very good reason, still circumspect on circumcision.

Whisky flavoured condoms courtesy bruno  girin’s photostream used under a creative commons license. Now how’s that for a turn on, whisky!

One Comment

  1. I was thinking about this whole conversation and it dawned upon me that so many ebelive that values are just arbitrary. A new book that serves as a rebuttal to Richard Dawkin’s, The God Delusion, and other books against religion is Adults Only (Bernard Hanan and Co. Publishers). This book offers scientific proof to the fact that the human being has a distinct soul and thus has a special moral imperative and questions whether morality is possible without religion. It also proves that there is an absolute ethical standard. You can’t make up your own values. I found the title to be provocative and realize that the point is to reinstate adulthood as a concept of morality. This book is very comprehensive and is exceedingly logical. It covers everything from scientifically disproving atheism to delving into themes of human sexuality. The author, IC Fingerer, is a rabbi and bioethicist. It can be ordered from Barnes and Noble or from http://www.thebookforadults.com.

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