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Do primates believe in God? They seem to have morals!

I had a conversation with a colleague over lunch a few years back, really nice guy and good friend, very religious. Somehow, the topic of my religion came up and I happened to mention that I was not much of a believer in any kind of supreme being. He was silent for a little while, trying to digest the fact that someone he liked and respected (me!) had just outed himself as the spawn of satan. He then asked me where I got my values from if I did not believe in God. I explained to him that just like him, I got mine from my parents, from school, society, friends, etc., in fact, one source less than he got his from! (a slight variant on the “I believe in one god less than you do” schtick!) I also explained to him that I thought a lot about my value system, I made ethical and moral judgements all the time just by thinking, reading and listening to other people. He seemed unconvinced, thanked me for my honesty, and we proceeded to talk basketball after that (Go Heels!).

Long ramble notwithstanding, I had known a little bit about this primate research previously, but happened to read a well written NY Times article about primates and “morality” (don’t like that word, but can’t seem to find a better one).

Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior – New York Times

Some animals are surprisingly sensitive to the plight of others. Chimpanzees, who cannot swim, have drowned in zoo moats trying to save others. Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days

Biologists argue that these and other social behaviors are the precursors of human morality. They further believe that if morality grew out of behavioral rules shaped by evolution, it is for biologists, not philosophers or theologians, to say what these rules are.

Hmm, they must believe God, because without religion, there is no morality, right?

I am not convinced that this “morality” was a naturally selected behavior rather than a by-product of evolution (the article references a critic as making this point too), nevertheless, it is fascinating.

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  • Four Years in Victoria: List Making

    I sense quite a bit of internally directed impatience and judgement. So it is good to take stock.

    Four years in Victoria, an incomplete list of firsts…

    1. Joined the board of an organization
    2. Donate(d) to multiple organizations
    3. Made presentations to the city council, school board, public meetings, met MPs, MLAs, councillors, mayors
    4. Facilitated public forums (not fora, which would make me an elitist)
    5. Joined a political party
    6. Went door to door for a political party
    7. Played music in a band for a paying audience
    8. Wrote music
    9. Sang in crowded street corners (with other people) busker style
    10. Grew veggies and greens
    11. Canned, made beer, made wine
    12. Became a property owner and joined the strata board!
    13. Lost my connection with the automobile. Driving, except for road trips, is now a necessary chore.
    14. Started busing to work.
    15. Got a new (lack of )hairstyle
    16. Garlic scapes (How did I miss out on garlic scapes for this long??)
    17. Expect to see Orca every time I get on a boat (I guess getting on a boat regularly is a first too).
    18. Expect to see snow-capped mountains at every turn while wearing a T-shirt and sandals in February

    Being visible in public is relatively new to me, always good to remember my past when explaining my present reluctance.

    This might be my first ever link less post.

  • | |

    Circumcision and AIDS – Revisited

    condom.jpg

    A post I wrote quite a while back on circumcision and AIDS remains my most commented post ever. In it (if you’re too lazy to click) I said that while research indicating a reduction in HIV infection in circumcised men was promising, there were a couple of concerns. One, that this could be a distraction from the single most effective prevention measure (no, not abstinence!), condom use. And two, that in certain cultures, especially among Hindus, this would be an absolute no no because circumcision is identified with being Muslim.

    Anyway, in a review article, the Cochrane Centre in South Africa summarizes results from a meta analysis of a number of trials indicating a 50% reduction in HIV incidence among circumcised males. At this point in time, it is clear that circumcision is effective in reducing HIV incidence among heterosexual males. Based on this, the institute encourages the widespread use of circumcision as an AIDS prevention strategy.

    So, am I still circumspect? Absolutely. I am still concerned that this research will be misinterpreted in a way that discourages condom use. In fact, the authors note that circumcised men indulged in more risky behaviour. Also, the incidence of HIV in the women these men were sleeping with increased from 9.6% to 13.8%, a 40% uptick. This increase was not statistically significant. No arguing with that, though the study was stopped early once it was clear that the men were helped, never mind the women, or reaching statistical significance in their case.

    Given that it is very unclear what the effects of circumcision are on anything other than circumcised penises, which are only one half of the equation (or less!), I don’t think it is responsible to call for widespread use of circumcision as a public health strategy for the prevention of HIV until its effects on the other parties are known. While people are aware of this issue, I don’t think the science or the cultural landscape promote the use of circumcision as a HIV prevention strategy until its proven that women are not at risk from increased HIV incidence either biologically from a yet unknown mechanism, or socially from increased risk taking.

    Men have more power in most societies to demand and receive sex on their terms. So the male centric nature of this research, and the conclusions drawn are disturbing. How irresponsible is it to encourage a public health strategy that appears to increase risk taking behaviour among men when the effects on the women are yet unknown, with only a statistically “insignificant” 40% increase in HIV incidence among women being observed?

    I am. for very good reason, still circumspect on circumcision.

    Whisky flavoured condoms courtesy bruno  girin’s photostream used under a creative commons license. Now how’s that for a turn on, whisky!

  • Can a 3 day meditation retreat change you?

    Photo of a Common Goldeneye courtesy Wikimedia commons (there were a few by the lake)

    TLDR: Yes, assuming it is a good fit for your beliefs and rhythms, and you are in the right mind space to participate See here for everything that happened “after”, part 2

    And now, the TL part 🙂

    Background

    If you knew me as a kid, the notion that I could sit still for even a minute without fidgeting unless focusing on some very interesting activity would be laughable. Even when focused, the fidget was always there and given my neurodiversity was (is) undiagnosed and not treated as such, my fidgets were ruined pens and pencils, books with edges torn off, every item within range chewed to some extent, the same doodle over and over on every page, so many other stims and coping mechanisms.

    As I grew older, I learned to manage my (presumed) neurodiversity better. But the neurodivergent challenges are always present. Before this retreat, I would have identified as internet dependent, phone addict, whatever you call it. For me, it predates cellphones and started the minute I had access to reasonably “unlimited” internet. Phones made it worse, but it was still the same underlying issue. What I came to realize as retreating to a comfortable companion when faced with even the slightest bit of discomfort, difficulty or challenge needing procrastinaton. I needed that hit, whether it was mindless browsing, discussion forums, the news, social media, endless YouTube videos, whatever. 

    Anyway, my partner alerted me to a 3 day mindfulness retreat, mostly silent, called “Resting into mindfulness” organized by Stephanie Curran, someone she has taken courses from in the past and whose energy and approach she was sure would work for me. I had been wanting to do a retreat for a few years now, but something or the other got in the way. Not this time!

    I am atheist. While I use Buddhist principles of mindfulness, presence, loving kindness (and Karuna, Muditha and Upekka!) and other precepts, and I appreciate some minor rituals (bells, symbolic objects), I am not comfortable with most major religions. I find the authoritarianism, directiveness, and patriarchy that all religions inevitably bring unpalatable and avoid them. So I have avoided a lot of structured retreats. This one was perfect. 

    Location Location Location

    We were at the Bethlehem Centre, a beautiful retreat centre on the banks of the Westwood Lake in Nanaimo. You could see the lake from my room and you could walk out to the lake from the centre in seconds. This itself had such an impact on my overall experience!  The centre was spacious and there was no one else there except us and the people volunteering/working there for the most part. The retreat included 3 meals a day, and your choice of shared or single accommodation. It was such a comfortable space to retreat. There were so many birds by the lake as well, which makes it a happy place for me.

    Structure (and Unstructure)

    Stephanie is trained in Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction which uses the principles of mindfulness to help with mental health. MBSR leans on the Vipassana (insight meditation) version of Buddhism while being explicitly secular in practice.

    I showed up Thursday afternoon, settled in, turned off my phone and the retreat got started after dinner. Then two full, mostly structured days followed. Sunday morning continued the retreat with a gradual return to reality for lunch and packing up to go home. It was mostly silent except for a 15 minute daily check in with the facilitator. 

    The retreat structure was based around these principles and consisted of the following activities

    1. Guided meditation
    2. Gentle yoga
    3. Body scans
    4. Walking meditation
    5. DIY unstructured time
    6. A short daily check

    All of this was screen and internet free, and Stephanie did 98% of the talking J

    We would wake up in the morning with a guided meditation, eat a lovely quiet breakfast followed by a mix of the activities over the course of the day. The time after lunch was unstructured, 2 hours of be by yourself activity, followed by more time when others were doing their check ins. Then, we got back together to do more of the activities, capped off by an evening ending guided meditation. I think it went from approx 730 AM – 9 PM (I could be off a bit here, it’s been 6 weeks!), but the ample unstructured time meant it did not feel like camp. I did not feel like I was rushing from activity to activity. 

    Facilitation

    The facilitation is obviously a huge part of why this retreat really worked for me. Stephanie held us together so beautifully and provided a calm, non-judgmental and confident space for us to expand into. She always provided options, was gentle enough that you had to really pay attention to appreciate the planning and structure she put together. She skilfully weaved teachings, anecdotes, personal experience and fact through the sessions. The skill and the setup were big factors in why this retreat really worked for me. I expect very structured retreats based on more explicitly religious principles to not work for me. 

    How did I feel during?

    Calm, present and centered is how I would describe it. I expected anxiety from being away from my phone, I expected actual physical withdrawal from not getting bits of dopamine every few minutes or even feeling my device in my pocket as a charm object. That never happened! How? I don’t want to examine it too much, but it turns out when you build the right container and structure, you can ease into being present even if it is hours at a time. I did not expect it to be that simple, but for me, it mostly was. I clearly needed the structure because I did find myself becoming a bit unsteady in the afternoon. Nothing a walk along the lake looking at birds mindfully did not solve! I did have to think about my unstructured time a bit to structure it in a way to keep me centered, would have been great to have a nap LOL, but I’m not a napper. 

    For me, sitting in meditation is often the hardest, I have used movement to calm and centre all my life. But the simple techniques Stephanie focused on, breath, sound, body awareness and being in “open” awareness really helped me through all of it. There’s never a one size fits all method. So, knowing there are a multiplicity of tools to pull out was helpful. Not everything was effortless, but knowing that’s part of the experience really helped (and we were reminded constantly). One key to me was that it did not feel like work, aspirational, effort filled, striving to a goal. It felt like flowing, you were doing (or not doing) something and if you felt discomfort, a barrier, you acknowledged it, examined it and let it pass. 

    Wow! 

    The silence

    I am pretty comfortable with silence. I can sit with someone and not talk for a while. So that part was not hard. Being mostly silent was one more way to stay present. It wasn’t as if we were ritually silent, there was the occasional thank you, or “there’s a beautiful heron around the corner”. The point was to not use conversation as a distraction. 

    The after

    I wrote about how I felt afterwards soon after I came back when it was fresh on my mind. Now, almost 6 weeks later, I feel substantially the same. Yes, 6 weeks is not a long time, but the retreat changed me in a meaningful way. And importantly, I know now the mental and physical state I want to be at most of the time. I did not know this before the retreat, nor did I think it was possible for someone like me. Knowing that state gives me so much confidence and strength, that if (when) I start moving away from this “new” homeostasis, I have the tools to recognize, acknowledge and respond with the many techniques this retreat taught me. I am blessed to start new habits and have them stick relatively easily. And I will try and go again!

    My biggest insights

    Skills, techniques aside, it’s awareness. I appear to now be more adept at recognizing when I have encountered a barrier, a challenge, a difficult situation, and then taking that small moment to acknowledge it instead of distracting away. Not all the time, not even close, but it’s a journey! So, that means I don’t always need the crutches, the phone, internet to cope. I do something else, a few deep breaths, a different activity, a stretch, change positions, whatever it is. For me, recognizing and pausing into presence is what I learned the most in the retreat and what I want to keep practicing for as long as I live. Also, as I mentioned, it’s the understanding of what mental and physical state I want to be in, I see that so much more clearly now, which makes it easier to get back to.

  • Choices for 2024

    When your phone does a thing

    I’m not much of a resolver, resolutioner, whatever the word may be. But my phone did show me these very interesting choices of app first thing this morning when I unlocked it and was looking for some app or the other, So I’m going to find the Madonna in this toast and overinterpret 🙂 The left two choices are the new Journal app on my phone versus Bluesky, which means I choose to prioritize writing for myself (or my group chats I’m going to extrapolate here) over social media. On the right, it’s streaming versus WordPress, which means I get to prioritize writing (and creating) over consuming. So, be it resolved for 2024!

    Also, the icons for Journal and Bluesky are both butterflies and that’s lovely.

  • Blog Resolutions for 2009

    1. Umm, blog more, perhaps?
    2. Political rants belong on facebook. Yes, I tend to be better informed than most people I know, but the knowledge is derivative and gleaned from reading other blogs. Now unless I have some rare, personal insight, is there any point in venting on a blog, as opposed to just putting it on facebook so your friends can cluck along with you?
    3. Blogs are meant for sharing, if you don’t tell anyone about your blog, there is no point
    4. Science is supposed to be communicated. It behoves all scientists to try their utmost to speak and write in an easy to understand manner and assume no inside information or prior knowledge when speaking to the general public
    5. Did I say, blog more already?
    6. Media, pictures, more colour!
    7. Explore ways of capturing insights when away from a computer, as in, talking in the car into a recorder (yes, looks silly, but I’ve lost that battle a while back!)

    We will see how that goes, anyway, Happy New Year!!

One Comment

  1. I was thinking about this whole conversation and it dawned upon me that so many ebelive that values are just arbitrary. A new book that serves as a rebuttal to Richard Dawkin’s, The God Delusion, and other books against religion is Adults Only (Bernard Hanan and Co. Publishers). This book offers scientific proof to the fact that the human being has a distinct soul and thus has a special moral imperative and questions whether morality is possible without religion. It also proves that there is an absolute ethical standard. You can’t make up your own values. I found the title to be provocative and realize that the point is to reinstate adulthood as a concept of morality. This book is very comprehensive and is exceedingly logical. It covers everything from scientifically disproving atheism to delving into themes of human sexuality. The author, IC Fingerer, is a rabbi and bioethicist. It can be ordered from Barnes and Noble or from http://www.thebookforadults.com.

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